Devotee of the Devotee
Krishna clearly explains to Arjuna in the Adi-Purana:
ye me bhakta-janāḥ pārtha
na me bhaktāś ca te janāḥ
mad-bhaktānāṁ ca ye bhaktās
te me bhakta-tamā matāḥ
"Those who are My direct devotees are actually not My devotees, but those who are the devotees of My servant are factually My devotees."
Therefore if we want to be devotees of Krishna we must become the devotees of a bona fide spiritual master by fully devoting our lives to him.
Here's what was written on the chat:
"Arun:
How is Krishna's birth anniversary ascertained? 5,244th birth anniversary takes us back to Harappa period (around 2500 to 1750BC). How's this possible? Plus there must have been some geological and archaeological evidence to corroborate this fact. I'm sorry to say. But again it's someone's way to inspire you for buying some of these coins in the name of religion.
"By the way if you go by the so called sastras (scriptures) that period is astonishing. Look at the period of Treta Yuga and the Dwapara Yuga when Krishna is believed to have been born. One more test. Rather an eye opener (at least science background people will believe). Iron was discovered during later Vedic period, around 1,000 BC, but Lord Krishna had witnessed huge battles with swords, daggers n arrows well before that. Just think it over. Read history from research, not from epics and mythology.
"Other friend:-
Sab kuchh jhooth hai kya it means..ye mathura and jail jhan paida hue and yamuna jise unhone bhado mas me par kiya tha and all other things surrounding the existence of Lord Krishna
"Arun again
I don't want to offend religious people in the group, .but your critical thinking will answer everything. Just start asking your queries, which were stifled since your childhood. Think how is it possible that Mahabharata war cud have been fought before 3100 BC (of course prior to the death of Lord Krishna) when even bronze metal discovery was at its nascent stage, let alone the presence of iron. As per recorded and established history, Aryans started moving towards Indo gangetic plains by clearing dense forest in the area with the use of iron axe only after discovery of iron in 1000 BC. You can cross check every fact that I'm presenting.
"Bachpan mein comics padha hoga aapne.... Chacha Choudhary, the super commander Dhurv, nagaraj. They don't really exist but were narrated in alignment with reality, like real places like Delhi and Mumbai were mentioned to make it seem real. And for religion, it makes sense. It serves their purpose. You go there in queue and donate wholeheartedly. Who will do that if there's no imagination or threat of a real God?"
Gurudeva, there are so many nonsense things that he wrote Kindly make this clear to me..
Shailesh Kumar
What’s your or anyone’s proof that iron was not discovered until 1000BC. Nor you nor any of your authorities were around then to observe this.
Your are believing the materialists and I am believing Krishna and the great acharyas. So you and I are doing the same thing. We are both putting our belief in someone.
I am very pragmatic person. My philosophy is “Truth Works.” By following the materialists I was as miserable as hell and now by following Krishna and the acharyas I am full of bliss. The final test will be at the time of our deaths. Let’s see where you end up and where I end up. Then we can completely put to rest the question of who is right and who is wrong.
For those with a scientific bend of mind regarding when was the appearance of Lord Krishna, the battle of Kurukshetra, etc. we refer to the following points made by the noted scientific researcher, Dr. Richard Thompson, regarding the starting date of Kali-yuga:
"Imagine the following scene: It is midnight on the meridian of Ujjain in India on February 18, 3102 B.C. The seven planets, including the sun and moon, cannot be seen since they are all lined up in one direction on the other side of the earth. Directly overhead the dark planet Rahu hovers invisibly in the blackness of night.
"According to the jyotisa sastras, this alignment of the planets actually occurred on this date, which marks the beginning of the Kali-yuga. In fact, in the Surya-siddhanta, time is measured in days since the start of Kali-yuga, and it is assumed that the positions of the seven planets in their two cycles are all aligned with the star Zeta Piscium at day zero. This star, which is known as Revati in Sanskrit, is used as the zero point for measuring celestial longitudes in the jyotisa sastras. The position of Rahu at day zero is also assumed to be 180 degrees from this star. Nearly identical assumptions are made in other astronomical siddhantas. (In some systems, such as that of Aryabhata, it is assumed that Kali-yuga began at sunrise rather than at midnight. In others, a close alignment of the planets is assumed at this time, rather than an exact alignment.)
"In the Caitanya-caritamrta AL 3.9-10, the present date in this day of Brahma is defined as follows: (1) The present Manu, Vaivasvata, is the seventh, (2) 27 divya-yugas of his age have passed, and (3) we are in the Kali-yuga of the 28th divya-yuga. The Surya-siddhanta also contains this information, and its calculations of planetary positions require knowledge of the ahargana, or the exact number of elapsed days in Kali-yuga. The Indian astronomer Aryabhata wrote that he was 23 years old when 3,600 years of Kali-yuga had passed (BJS, part 2, p. 55). Since Aryabhata is said to have been born in Saka 398, or A.D. 476, this is in agreement with the standard ahargana used today for the calculations of the Surya-siddhanta.
"For example, October 1, 1965, corresponds to day 1,850,569 in Kali-yuga. On the basis of this information one can calculate that the Kali-yuga began on February 18, 3102 B.C., according to the Gregorian calendar. It is for this reason that Vaisnavas maintain that the pastimes of Krishna with the Pandavas in the battle of Kurukshetra took place about 5,000 years ago.
Of course, it comes as no surprise that the standard view of Western scholars is that this date for the start of Kali-yuga is fictitious. Indeed, these scholars maintain that the battle of Kurukshetra itself is fictitious, and that the civilization described in the Vedic literature is simply a product of poetic imagination. It is therefore interesting to ask what modern astronomers have to say about the positions of the planets on February 18, 3102 B.C."
I hope that you find the above points edifying.
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
ye me bhakta-janāḥ pārtha
na me bhaktāś ca te janāḥ
mad-bhaktānāṁ ca ye bhaktās
te me bhakta-tamā matāḥ
"Those who are My direct devotees are actually not My devotees, but those who are the devotees of My servant are factually My devotees."
Therefore if we want to be devotees of Krishna we must become the devotees of a bona fide spiritual master by fully devoting our lives to him.
Disciples Are Totally Dedicated to Their Guru
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Answers by Citing the Vedic Version
Question: How to Deal with These Arguments?
Srila Gurudeva, how to deal these arguments from a debate chat on the internet?Here's what was written on the chat:
"Arun:
How is Krishna's birth anniversary ascertained? 5,244th birth anniversary takes us back to Harappa period (around 2500 to 1750BC). How's this possible? Plus there must have been some geological and archaeological evidence to corroborate this fact. I'm sorry to say. But again it's someone's way to inspire you for buying some of these coins in the name of religion.
"By the way if you go by the so called sastras (scriptures) that period is astonishing. Look at the period of Treta Yuga and the Dwapara Yuga when Krishna is believed to have been born. One more test. Rather an eye opener (at least science background people will believe). Iron was discovered during later Vedic period, around 1,000 BC, but Lord Krishna had witnessed huge battles with swords, daggers n arrows well before that. Just think it over. Read history from research, not from epics and mythology.
"Other friend:-
Sab kuchh jhooth hai kya it means..ye mathura and jail jhan paida hue and yamuna jise unhone bhado mas me par kiya tha and all other things surrounding the existence of Lord Krishna
"Arun again
I don't want to offend religious people in the group, .but your critical thinking will answer everything. Just start asking your queries, which were stifled since your childhood. Think how is it possible that Mahabharata war cud have been fought before 3100 BC (of course prior to the death of Lord Krishna) when even bronze metal discovery was at its nascent stage, let alone the presence of iron. As per recorded and established history, Aryans started moving towards Indo gangetic plains by clearing dense forest in the area with the use of iron axe only after discovery of iron in 1000 BC. You can cross check every fact that I'm presenting.
"Bachpan mein comics padha hoga aapne.... Chacha Choudhary, the super commander Dhurv, nagaraj. They don't really exist but were narrated in alignment with reality, like real places like Delhi and Mumbai were mentioned to make it seem real. And for religion, it makes sense. It serves their purpose. You go there in queue and donate wholeheartedly. Who will do that if there's no imagination or threat of a real God?"
Gurudeva, there are so many nonsense things that he wrote Kindly make this clear to me..
Shailesh Kumar
Answer: Here's How
To the rascal who is making these points I would say:What’s your or anyone’s proof that iron was not discovered until 1000BC. Nor you nor any of your authorities were around then to observe this.
Your are believing the materialists and I am believing Krishna and the great acharyas. So you and I are doing the same thing. We are both putting our belief in someone.
I am very pragmatic person. My philosophy is “Truth Works.” By following the materialists I was as miserable as hell and now by following Krishna and the acharyas I am full of bliss. The final test will be at the time of our deaths. Let’s see where you end up and where I end up. Then we can completely put to rest the question of who is right and who is wrong.
For those with a scientific bend of mind regarding when was the appearance of Lord Krishna, the battle of Kurukshetra, etc. we refer to the following points made by the noted scientific researcher, Dr. Richard Thompson, regarding the starting date of Kali-yuga:
"Imagine the following scene: It is midnight on the meridian of Ujjain in India on February 18, 3102 B.C. The seven planets, including the sun and moon, cannot be seen since they are all lined up in one direction on the other side of the earth. Directly overhead the dark planet Rahu hovers invisibly in the blackness of night.
"According to the jyotisa sastras, this alignment of the planets actually occurred on this date, which marks the beginning of the Kali-yuga. In fact, in the Surya-siddhanta, time is measured in days since the start of Kali-yuga, and it is assumed that the positions of the seven planets in their two cycles are all aligned with the star Zeta Piscium at day zero. This star, which is known as Revati in Sanskrit, is used as the zero point for measuring celestial longitudes in the jyotisa sastras. The position of Rahu at day zero is also assumed to be 180 degrees from this star. Nearly identical assumptions are made in other astronomical siddhantas. (In some systems, such as that of Aryabhata, it is assumed that Kali-yuga began at sunrise rather than at midnight. In others, a close alignment of the planets is assumed at this time, rather than an exact alignment.)
"In the Caitanya-caritamrta AL 3.9-10, the present date in this day of Brahma is defined as follows: (1) The present Manu, Vaivasvata, is the seventh, (2) 27 divya-yugas of his age have passed, and (3) we are in the Kali-yuga of the 28th divya-yuga. The Surya-siddhanta also contains this information, and its calculations of planetary positions require knowledge of the ahargana, or the exact number of elapsed days in Kali-yuga. The Indian astronomer Aryabhata wrote that he was 23 years old when 3,600 years of Kali-yuga had passed (BJS, part 2, p. 55). Since Aryabhata is said to have been born in Saka 398, or A.D. 476, this is in agreement with the standard ahargana used today for the calculations of the Surya-siddhanta.
"For example, October 1, 1965, corresponds to day 1,850,569 in Kali-yuga. On the basis of this information one can calculate that the Kali-yuga began on February 18, 3102 B.C., according to the Gregorian calendar. It is for this reason that Vaisnavas maintain that the pastimes of Krishna with the Pandavas in the battle of Kurukshetra took place about 5,000 years ago.
Of course, it comes as no surprise that the standard view of Western scholars is that this date for the start of Kali-yuga is fictitious. Indeed, these scholars maintain that the battle of Kurukshetra itself is fictitious, and that the civilization described in the Vedic literature is simply a product of poetic imagination. It is therefore interesting to ask what modern astronomers have to say about the positions of the planets on February 18, 3102 B.C."
I hope that you find the above points edifying.
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
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