Owning Up to Our Mortality
There is no sense in dreaming that we can live forever. The clock is ticking away at every second bringing us closer and closer to death. Pretending that death is not coming will not make it go away. The inexorable time juggernaut keeps right on rolling along crushing everything in its path. Sooner or later it will be our turn to succumb. Therefore the intelligent person prepares himself now for the inevitable by reviving his Krishna consciousness to prepare himself for eternal, all-blissful, full cognizant existence in that wondrous spiritual sky.
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
Pranams. I am sorry to partially refuse the view point you stated yesterday regarding varnashram. I think there are not two caste systems. Please give me some Vedic proof for the same.
As per my understanding, a birth of a living entity is decided by his quality (and capacity) at the time of death. So a living entity desiring to know the truth is placed in a brahminical womb, one desirous to achieve fame is placed in a ksatriya womb, one desirous to achieve wealth (or thinking about wealth at time of death) is placed in vaisya womb, and one who was thinking about sense enjoyment would be placed in a sudra womb [and more trivial ones like just thinking about eating meat may be placed in animal wombs]. God not only places the entity in a womb corresponding to his desire, but also gives as much facility as possible so that the living entity can fulfill his desire and in the course can also achieve some spiritual progress.
So it is correct that a person's caste is determined by his qualities and actions, but it is also correct that a person's caste is determined by his birth, since the birth is determined by the qualities and actions (of his previous berth). It is possible that after birth a person may change his qualities and actions (like sage Vishwamitra or Dronacharya). But I think they are exceptions and not the rule. Otherwise we have the risk of assuming that God places entities in womb randomly with no relation to the quality or desire of a particular individual. So varnashram WAS a perfect socio/economic/spiritual system. This might have been degraded mainly by researchers who didn't had the idea of rebirth/transmigration and hence were not able to understand the caste system (basically birth based) on previous activity and existence of desires even before a living entity enters into the womb. And in trying to defend from their onslaught many acharyas had endorsed the view.
So in my opinion varnashram including caste by birth was a perfect system (even though it can't be revived until end of kali yuga) as well as practical. Since if we have to decide a persons caste by his activities, who will decide and when? It will be an almost impossible and controversial activity with almost all relatives of the ruling class being classified as brahmanas and everyone else as sudras, so the only practical way of deciding caste may be by birth.
However except for this view on varnashram I agree with most of your other views and I am grateful for the same in providing me a hope to come out of this illusion/suffering. In case if you find my opinion not correct, please let me know and once again I am sorry if was wrong in writing this.
Respectfully yours,
Subramanian
The great Vaisnava acharya, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada clearly describes the two kinds of caste systems as follows:
"It is this divine varnashram-dharma that Krishna recommends, not
the caste system as it is understood today. This modern caste system is now condemned in India also, and it should be condemned, for the classification of different types of men according to birth is not the Vedic or divine caste system."
"The Vedic literature consists of the sruti (the Vedas and Upanisads) and the smrti (the Vedanta-sutra, the Puranas, Itihasas like the Mahabharata and Ramayana, the Pancaratras, and finally the Srimad-Bhagavatam). The Srimad-Bhagavatam is the natural commentary on the Vedanta-sutra and offers solid education on how to conduct life perfectly. In recent ages the smrti texts have become prominent and influenced human thought and action. All these scriptures fully support the varnashram system of four social and four religious orders. But what is today being labeled varnashram is an atheistic concept totally unsupported by the scriptures. Real varnashram is based not on birth but on people's qualities and activities. One cannot reach the goal of the scriptures by practicing today's demoniac caste system. Only the introduction of daivi-varnashram, the transcendental varnashram system, will serve the purpose of the scriptures. This will move humanity toward liberation."
While it is often the case that a person gets a birth with parents of the same quality, it is often not the case also. For example, in our Krishna consciousness movement there are thousands of people who were born into sudra families but who have shown by their qualities and activities that they are indeed brahmanas. In India one of them was told by a caste brahmana that because he was engaged in Krishna consciousness even though he was not a brahmana now, in his next life he would take birth as a brahmana. This is pure rubbish. This caste brahmana was promoting the demoniac caste system based on birth. He refused to accept the divine caste system described by Krishna in the Bhagavad-gita based on qualities and activities. He refused to accept that a western born preacher of Vedic dharma could be accepted as a brahmana. Just see how close-minded and bigoted he was.
The divine caste system is clearly described by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-gita as follows:
cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ
guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ
"According to the qualities of the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society are created by Me."
--Bhagavad-gita 4.13
Note carefully that Krishna says guna karma, qualities and work are the basis of the four social divisions. He nowhere mentions janma or birth as the basis of determining one's social position. A person whose qualities and activities are a manifestation of the mode of goodness is a brahmana. A person whose qualities and activities are in the mode of passion is a ksatriya. A person who has a mixture of passion and ignorance is a vaisya. And a person who is in the mode of ignorance is a sudra. In any society in any part of the world these natural social divisions are there. In communist Russia there was an artificial attempt to make a classless society, but the social divisions were still there. The common people were the worker sudra class. And the communist party members were the ksatriya or administrative class. The intellectuals who opposed communism were the brahmana class. The vaisya class was suppressed and not allowed to function. But as soon as communism fell so many Russians came out as mercantile men, the vaisya class.
When a proponent of the demoniac caste system stated that Swami Bhaktivedanta is spoiling Hinduism, Srila Prabhupada's retort was, "I am increasing the number of Hindus."
Brahmana is a qualification. It is not by birth. Just as a high-court judge's son is not a high-court judge unless he has the qualifications of a high-court judge, similarly the son of a brahmana is not a brahmana by birth. Of course, birth as the son a high court judge gives one a very good opportunity for being a high court judge, but it is not automatic. If the high court judge's son also wants to be a high court judge, he must qualify himself.
It is the bona fide spiritual master who recognizes the nature of his disciples and engages them properly in Krishna's service according to their varna and ashram. The four varnas (social orders) are brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, and sudra. The four ashrams (spiritual orders) are brahmacari, grihastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa.
Ruling class means ksatriyas, not brahmanas. The brahmanas have no tendency to rule or accumulate wealth. Brahmana means that person who knows what is Brahman, the Absolute Truth, and who fully dedicates his life to give knowledge of Brahman to the illusioned, ignorant human society. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out who is an actual brahmana. Those persons who enlighten others in the science of the Bhagavad-gita as it is are the real brahmanas.
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
Answers According to the Vedic Version:
Objection: There Are Not Two Caste Systems
Dear Gurudeva,Pranams. I am sorry to partially refuse the view point you stated yesterday regarding varnashram. I think there are not two caste systems. Please give me some Vedic proof for the same.
As per my understanding, a birth of a living entity is decided by his quality (and capacity) at the time of death. So a living entity desiring to know the truth is placed in a brahminical womb, one desirous to achieve fame is placed in a ksatriya womb, one desirous to achieve wealth (or thinking about wealth at time of death) is placed in vaisya womb, and one who was thinking about sense enjoyment would be placed in a sudra womb [and more trivial ones like just thinking about eating meat may be placed in animal wombs]. God not only places the entity in a womb corresponding to his desire, but also gives as much facility as possible so that the living entity can fulfill his desire and in the course can also achieve some spiritual progress.
So it is correct that a person's caste is determined by his qualities and actions, but it is also correct that a person's caste is determined by his birth, since the birth is determined by the qualities and actions (of his previous berth). It is possible that after birth a person may change his qualities and actions (like sage Vishwamitra or Dronacharya). But I think they are exceptions and not the rule. Otherwise we have the risk of assuming that God places entities in womb randomly with no relation to the quality or desire of a particular individual. So varnashram WAS a perfect socio/economic/spiritual system. This might have been degraded mainly by researchers who didn't had the idea of rebirth/transmigration and hence were not able to understand the caste system (basically birth based) on previous activity and existence of desires even before a living entity enters into the womb. And in trying to defend from their onslaught many acharyas had endorsed the view.
So in my opinion varnashram including caste by birth was a perfect system (even though it can't be revived until end of kali yuga) as well as practical. Since if we have to decide a persons caste by his activities, who will decide and when? It will be an almost impossible and controversial activity with almost all relatives of the ruling class being classified as brahmanas and everyone else as sudras, so the only practical way of deciding caste may be by birth.
However except for this view on varnashram I agree with most of your other views and I am grateful for the same in providing me a hope to come out of this illusion/suffering. In case if you find my opinion not correct, please let me know and once again I am sorry if was wrong in writing this.
Respectfully yours,
Subramanian
Answer: The Real System and Its Shadow
I beg to point out that I am not presenting my views. I am presenting the authoritative version of the Vedic literatures as confirmed by the great acharyas. I also beg to point out that you have a misunderstanding regarding the system of four social and spiritual orders, which is technically called the varnashram system in the Vedic literatures, and commonly referred to as the caste system. However, because you are a sincere seeker of truth, I accept your apology. You must now lay aside all preconceived notions and understand this matter clearly.The great Vaisnava acharya, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada clearly describes the two kinds of caste systems as follows:
"It is this divine varnashram-dharma that Krishna recommends, not
the caste system as it is understood today. This modern caste system is now condemned in India also, and it should be condemned, for the classification of different types of men according to birth is not the Vedic or divine caste system."
"The Vedic literature consists of the sruti (the Vedas and Upanisads) and the smrti (the Vedanta-sutra, the Puranas, Itihasas like the Mahabharata and Ramayana, the Pancaratras, and finally the Srimad-Bhagavatam). The Srimad-Bhagavatam is the natural commentary on the Vedanta-sutra and offers solid education on how to conduct life perfectly. In recent ages the smrti texts have become prominent and influenced human thought and action. All these scriptures fully support the varnashram system of four social and four religious orders. But what is today being labeled varnashram is an atheistic concept totally unsupported by the scriptures. Real varnashram is based not on birth but on people's qualities and activities. One cannot reach the goal of the scriptures by practicing today's demoniac caste system. Only the introduction of daivi-varnashram, the transcendental varnashram system, will serve the purpose of the scriptures. This will move humanity toward liberation."
While it is often the case that a person gets a birth with parents of the same quality, it is often not the case also. For example, in our Krishna consciousness movement there are thousands of people who were born into sudra families but who have shown by their qualities and activities that they are indeed brahmanas. In India one of them was told by a caste brahmana that because he was engaged in Krishna consciousness even though he was not a brahmana now, in his next life he would take birth as a brahmana. This is pure rubbish. This caste brahmana was promoting the demoniac caste system based on birth. He refused to accept the divine caste system described by Krishna in the Bhagavad-gita based on qualities and activities. He refused to accept that a western born preacher of Vedic dharma could be accepted as a brahmana. Just see how close-minded and bigoted he was.
The divine caste system is clearly described by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-gita as follows:
cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ
guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ
"According to the qualities of the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society are created by Me."
--Bhagavad-gita 4.13
Note carefully that Krishna says guna karma, qualities and work are the basis of the four social divisions. He nowhere mentions janma or birth as the basis of determining one's social position. A person whose qualities and activities are a manifestation of the mode of goodness is a brahmana. A person whose qualities and activities are in the mode of passion is a ksatriya. A person who has a mixture of passion and ignorance is a vaisya. And a person who is in the mode of ignorance is a sudra. In any society in any part of the world these natural social divisions are there. In communist Russia there was an artificial attempt to make a classless society, but the social divisions were still there. The common people were the worker sudra class. And the communist party members were the ksatriya or administrative class. The intellectuals who opposed communism were the brahmana class. The vaisya class was suppressed and not allowed to function. But as soon as communism fell so many Russians came out as mercantile men, the vaisya class.
When a proponent of the demoniac caste system stated that Swami Bhaktivedanta is spoiling Hinduism, Srila Prabhupada's retort was, "I am increasing the number of Hindus."
Brahmana is a qualification. It is not by birth. Just as a high-court judge's son is not a high-court judge unless he has the qualifications of a high-court judge, similarly the son of a brahmana is not a brahmana by birth. Of course, birth as the son a high court judge gives one a very good opportunity for being a high court judge, but it is not automatic. If the high court judge's son also wants to be a high court judge, he must qualify himself.
It is the bona fide spiritual master who recognizes the nature of his disciples and engages them properly in Krishna's service according to their varna and ashram. The four varnas (social orders) are brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, and sudra. The four ashrams (spiritual orders) are brahmacari, grihastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa.
Ruling class means ksatriyas, not brahmanas. The brahmanas have no tendency to rule or accumulate wealth. Brahmana means that person who knows what is Brahman, the Absolute Truth, and who fully dedicates his life to give knowledge of Brahman to the illusioned, ignorant human society. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out who is an actual brahmana. Those persons who enlighten others in the science of the Bhagavad-gita as it is are the real brahmanas.
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
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